This month I had a chance to interview Gayle Watkins of Gaylan Golden Retrievers. Besides being a long time breeder, Gayle is also a GRCA CCA evaluator. Due to the length of this interview, it will be another column that will be divided into two parts.. I wish to thank Gayle for her time and efforts in providing such interesting answers to my questions.

PH: Could you please tell us how you got involved in dog showing and Goldens in particular?

GW: I loved animals of all sorts all my life but was particularly involved in horses as a teenager and during college. I had leased horses and trained other people's horses but never owned one of my own. When I graduated from college and got my first job, I started looking for a horse to buy. My plan was to breed horses so I tried to buy a lovely chestnut Thoroughbred as my first broodmare.

I've never been known for being practical and didn't think through how owning a horse might conflict with my lifestyle since my first job was as an Army second lieutenant stationed at Ft Ord, California.

Thankfully, Andy (my then boyfriend, now husband) had more common sense than I. When the deal with the horse fell through, he tried to cheer me up by recommending I get a dog instead. I decided that breeding dogs would have to do until I got out of the Army, never dreaming I would serve 23 years!

I knew that I wanted a purebred dog to train, show and breed but I didn't know which breed would fit my needs. I had been involved in three-day eventing horses--those that do dressage, show jumping and cross country--so I wanted a similarly multi-purpose dog. I also wanted a dog that did not require ear docking, tail cropping or extensive grooming. Finally, I wanted a rugged breed that enjoyed cold and wet weather so if I was transferred to Germany (this was back in the Cold War so everyone went to Germany at some point in their Army careers) we would still be able to do things together regardless of the season.

Andy and I headed off to the Del Monte Kennel Club show to shop for breeds. There I saw an obedience demonstration put on by a lovely woman and a big, beautiful gold dog. This dog amazed me by his enthusiasm and intelligence, as well as his apparent devotion to his owner. I knew then and there that I wanted a dog just like him. I found out that the woman was Suzi Bluford of Dasu Goldens and the dog was a golden retriever, the great Streaker, Ch & OTCH Sunstreak of Culynwood TD WC OS OBHF.

After meeting Suzi and Streaker, I went looking for a well-bred golden retriever litter and found one sired by Pluis Davern's Digger, Ch Almaden Sundowners Sequoia UD WC KH. (KH was a search and rescue title and Digger was an accomplished SAR dog.) In December 1979, we came home with Dream. She became Aurora's Dream of Garzas Canyon Am-Can CD WCX OD and was the start of Gaylan's Golden Retrievers. Her first litter, born in 1981, was sired by Streaker and produced our first Best in Specialty Sweeps winner, our first breed champion, our first utility dog and our first search and rescue dog.

PH: I know that you participate in all the venues, which is your

favorite and why? Which venue do you find to be the most challenging?

And again why?

As much as I love field work, I also find it the most challenging venue, particularly given how many times I have moved since starting in goldens. (At last count, Andy and I have moved 18 times in our 30 years

together.) However, like a good hunting dog, I figure golden retriever owners/breeders must be persistent, courageous and determined in finding grounds, birds, teachers, training partners and techniques. This aspect of the golden retriever is so important in my opinion that we have to go to whatever lengths it requires to develop and test our dogs in the field.

I'm definitely not a natural at field training and I've had plenty of failures, I've made many mistakes and I've tried every avenue of training, from hiring pros to doing it myself. I've been able to take some dogs to a pretty high level but some never achieved their full talents because of my personal limitations. I remain grateful to every dog that has teamed up with me in the field, no matter how far we went.

I figure no one ever said breeding good dogs was easy so I see it all as part of being a breeder of a working breed. My goal is to just keep getting better as a trainer and handler. Thanks to the help of my training group, friends, partners, teachers and dogs, I'm making progress.

PH: Since I am also aware that you have lived in many parts of the country since you became involved in Golden Retrievers, I am curious as to the differences you see depending upon where you were living at the time. I am especially thinking about training/handling differences in the field venue due to the differences in terrain and ground cover. I am also wondering if you found differences in the Goldens, themselves, due to these different terrains, for example the size and/or coloring of the dogs.

GW: Most of my time in the US has been spent on either the East or the West Coast. I also spent a number of years in Europe in the '80s. I saw big differences between US and European goldens while relatively few differences between the East and West Coast dogs. However, there are huge variations in terrain between the areas of the country in which I've lived.

Northern California had huge expanses of grassland which challenged the dogs marking ability since there were few variations in terrain off of which to mark. The water challenges ranged from large irrigation canals to flat swamps.   There were some hills but they were relatively smooth with no rocks. The worst parts of California for me were foxtails, a grass awn that gets into dogs' noses, ears, and other body parts, as well as the limited water for training, hunting and competing.

Maryland and Massachusetts had fields like California with larger, more daunting water. New York, where I live today, has very rocky and hilly terrain with extremely thick cover. We have few large lakes and in most cases, the forest comes down to the water's edge, making marking difficult. Of the places that I live, it is NY that has the most challenging hunting terrain for a retriever. Hunting pheasant here is brutal on a dog's body and hunting duck requires real marking and handling skill.

Yet, despite these differences, I haven't seen a lot of geographic variation in U.S. goldens that could be linked to terrain differences.

In fact, I've seen far more trends over time than geographic variation.

In conformation, grooming and hair in general is the most obvious change. I won Best in Sweeps at the first specialty that I attended after bathing the dog, toweling him for the night and neatening his feet. I owned a comb, one brush, nail clippers, one pair of scissors, a towel and horse pins. I was probably naïve but that's how I prepped my dogs for many years. They had what I thought was appropriate coat but it was much different than what I see in the ring today.

In terms of field, for a while the trend I noticed was in terms of size from substantial dogs like Quar toward smaller goldens. But that trend seems to have reversed and the field dogs, both hunt test and field trial, I see today are of appropriate height and weight.

PH: One of the things I respect most about your breeding program is

the fact that you seem to try to breed for the all-around Golden that can compete in any venue. Was your breeding program always based with this all around dog in mind or did your breeding program start with one venue in mind and then evolved into what it is today? Could you please describe how you started and what steps you took to produce a Golden that could "do it all"? For instance did you start in one venue and add one venue at a time in your thought and decision process or what?

With those dogs as models, my goal was always to produce dogs that were both beautiful to look at, wonderful to live with and a pleasure to hunt over. I started in conformation, obedience and WC/WCXs. There was no hunt test program and my time was very limited by my work schedule so I only dabbled in field trials and tracking.

When I returned to the States in 1992 after three years in Germany, both hunt tests and agility had become popular. I immediately embraced the hunt test program, thinking it was a fabulous addition to the performance venues, but I also tried my hand in agility.

Although today Gaylan's dogs compete in many venues, we focus our breeding program on conformation and field, the foundations of golden retrievers. Well-built dogs with exceptional field ability will also be able to succeed in other activities, such as obedience, agility, tracking, search and rescue, therapy and more. I'm always thrilled when one of our dogs excels in one area and I couldn't be prouder of their successes but my goal is always to produce multi-purpose goldens that can succeed in a number of venues.

As with so many sports, every dog activity has evolved so that today each is more difficult, interesting and demanding than it was years ago.

To do well, you have to study, practice and condition your dog for each venue. It is increasingly difficult to achieve a high level of success in multiple areas. My hat is off to any owner and dog team that can become champions in more than one venue!

I'm going to end this month's column here. Next month you will be able to read the rest of Gayle's responses in which she explains her thoughts on breeding and training multiple purpose Goldens. I hope that you will look forward to the rest of my interview with Gayle.

INTERVIEW WITH GAYLE WATKINS PART 2

Last month we learned a bit of Gayle's background and how she started her breeding program. This month we will discover her thoughts on the producing and training of multiple venue dogs.

PH: Would you please describe your ideal Golden? Is there any past Goldens either owned by you or another who came close to your ideal? If so, who and why?

GW: My ideal golden looks like the dog in the GRCA logo or on the GRCA's Bill Lester Memorial Trophy—athletic, substantial without being overdone, moderately coated with a pleasant head and expression. It is eager, alert, active, intelligent, powerful and stable. It takes your breath away working in the field by both its beauty and its intensity.  And, although I like a lot of energy in my dogs when the day is done and its coat has dried, my ideal golden happily curls up in bed with me and the other dogs.

Of my own dogs, Sparky remains my favorite and ideal. Sired by Am-Can CH Whipaly Sierra Zip'N Zachary Am/Can CDX JH WCX OS. out of Dream, she became Canadian Ch Gaylan's Winter Promise UD SH WCX Can CD. Before she was three, Sparky earned her Can CH in two straight weekends, had a sanctioned derby win, earned high scores in obedience and had many specialty placements, including one at the National. 

When we moved to Germany, she became a search and rescue dog for a German team.  One of the biggest disappointments of my dog career was never getting a litter out of Sparky. We bred her as soon as we returned from Germany but she developed pyometra and had to be spayed, ending both her breeding and conformation career. Sparky's life taught me many lessons but the biggest one was that to be a sane and happy dog breeder you have to be resilient in the face of the many disappointments and challenges that breeding animals presents.

One of my present bitches that comes close to Sparky in terms of reaching my breeding goals is Una, Gaylan's Hole in One SH MX MXJ WCX OD VC CCA. Una is still competing so I look forward to where she will take me over the coming years.  Favorite boys from my own lines include my first champion from my first litter, CH Gaylan's Zetelands Warrior CD, WC (owned by Craig Shields). Rusty was a wonderful red dog who gave Gaylan's many firsts including our first American Champion, our first Best in Sweeps and our first Specialty points. Most recent favorite dogs include CH Gaylan's WestPoint Guidon CDX SH NAJ WCX VCX (owned by Jan and Leon Thompson) and Goose, Can Ch Gaylan's Born to Fly SH MX MXJ WCX OS (owned by Lise Pratt). Trooper gave us many thrills, such as High Scoring Champion and winner of the Hunting Retriever Dog class at the National Specialty.

Goose meets my goals in terms of temperament, trainability, structure, type and drive. I love to watch him work and am thrilled with what he has been able to pass on to his kids. I know I'm going to leave some out but when I think about dogs over the years that took my breath away, they include littermates Expo and Leica

(CH Elysian Sky Hi Dubl Exposure UDT MH ** WCX OS VCX OS and
 BIS CH.Elysian's Lil Leica Reprint UD TD MH WCX VCX SDHF OD);
Teri Poetker's Weezer, CH Bargellos Golly G's Louise CDX SH TD MX AXJ RN WCX OD VCX;\
Ch Pebwin Excel CD OS; and Allison and
 Ray Desmaris' Yogi, Am-Can CH, Am OTCH Highmark Mirasol Once A Knight UDX3 TDX JH MX MXJ WC OS SDHF OBHF VCX.

PH: What qualities and traits do you seek when picking a stud dog? While I don't wish to imply that you wouldn't want a dog that has both good conformation and good work ethic, I am wondering if you weigh performance over conformation or vice versa if you have to choose between a better performing dog with not quite as good conformation or a dog that has better conformation but isn't quite as much of a "retrieving fool" as the dog with the poorer conformation?

GW: Although I'm always looking for those dogs that excel in both conformation and working ability, I am not willing to sacrifice general health and longevity, mental stability, soundness and overall moderation for high level titles. In addition, it is more important to me that the dog have a pedigree that will match well with those of my bitches. Over the years, there have been many wonderful dogs that I have admired tremendously but not bred to because of areas of concern in my own pedigrees or the needs of my dams. My goal is to make the best match, rather than to breed to the top dog. Since I think cancer is the greatest threat that our breed faces, my first criteria for studs is they come from pedigrees with longevity and overall good health. I seek unrelated dogs because I do primarily outcrosses based on the tenets and concerns raised by Dr John Armstrong's Canine Diversity Project. I also seek to breed to older dogs, usually at least eight years old but ideally older. Although this has presented some breeding challenges over the years, I especially value the genes of a ten-, twelve- or even thirteen-year old dog that can still breed naturally and produce good-sized litters. As breeders, these are the dogs that we need to treasure.

I also try to meet all of the dogs that I breed to so some of my choices are limited by how much traveling I can do. I visit to get a feel for each dog's temperament and personality, as well as structure and type. I like to see the dog interact with me and my own dogs so I have an idea of their approach to dogs and people. If possible, I want to see the dog play or work in some way but performance titles are not a requirement. However at a minimum, terrific self-confidence and intense retrieve drive is essential in a male that I breed to, even if that passion is for a tennis ball or a bumper.

I breed to both conformation and field dogs, depending upon what each brood bitch needs, where I'm going with her line and what pedigree I'm trying to build for the future. I am willing to take a bitch with excellent working ability to a champion with no working titles that has evidence in either his pedigree or his personality that he has trainability, drive and intelligence.

I also go regularly to field dogs with lovely structure that may not be fancy but are solid representatives of our breed. It is exciting to find Master Hunters or field trial dogs with beautiful front assemblies, appropriate substance, good balance and movement, and pleasant heads. I always feel like I've found a hidden treasure when I meet these boys.

PH: What qualities and traits do you look for when selecting a puppy? Once you have picked a puppy, at what age do you start training it and what do you train first?

GW: Selecting a pup for me to keep is always tough since we keep so few personal dogs. The pups we keep are selected first on pedigree, usually from the second or third litter from a dam whose earlier litters have shown talent in the field, good structure, stable temperament and good health. Once we've decided on a litter, we look for the pups that show tremendous self-confidence, strong prey drive, inherent birdiness, as well as courage, persistence, biddability and intelligence. From those pups, we look for the pup with the best structure (front and rear assemblies, balance, movement), pleasant head, good substance and reasonable coat. Assuming there is a pup that meets all of these criteria, it stays. Otherwise, we wait for another litter.

We train all of the pups we breed from the very beginning; our puppy raising program seeks to give them as many age-appropriate experiences as possible while they are growing up. We do Bio-Sensor exercises and introduce novel scents as early as 3 days of age. We design their environment and activities to further their development as soon as their eyes and ears are open. We start daily woods walks between 5 ½ and 6 weeks to grow their bodies and brains. We condition them to come when called by 7½ weeks. We teach them about heights, movement, edges, birds, swimming, tugging and retrieving by 8 weeks. By then, they have also met upwards of 100 different people, both as individuals and groups. Our puppy program is always evolving as we find and incorporate new research and good ideas to help us teach and develop our Gaylan's babies.

After the rest of the litter goes home, our personal pups' training program is designed around their individual strengths and weaknesses. No pup is perfect so we want to build on its strengths while improving its weak areas. Our goals for our pups first six months are to create a dog that is a pleasant house companion, has self-restraint, drive and self-confidence, can think and engage in training as our partner, is aware of its body and how to use it, can handle stress, and eagerly approaches the world. With my newest pup, I've used everything from clicker training, crate games, jumping exercises, numerous field drills and formal obedience to prepare her for her future as a field, obedience and agility dog. I also intend to do tracking with her in the future but have held off introducing her to this sport because she is naturally independent and I don't want to strengthen that trait.

PH: As a follow-up question, how do you train when you are training for multiple venues? Do you start in one venue such as obedience and then when the pup has the basics down start to introduce the other venues or do you work one venue at a time until the dog has at least an entry level title before introducing the next venue?

GW: For the most part, I teach components of many venues simultaneously although I try to be aware of potentially conflicting exercises and commands. I carefully choose signals and commands to reduce my dogs' confusion. I think through the order of the exercises I teach to enable them to build on one another, reduce conflict in my pup's mind and establish a very solid foundation across venues. Even though I teach exercises from many venues at once, my primary emphasis is to establish a strong field foundation first and foremost.

I also try to plan ahead for the pup's first year or so by looking at what venues I'll be doing with my other dogs in order to be as efficient as I can. If I know I'm going to be doing hunt tests with an older dog I'll shoot to get a Junior Hunter title on my puppy. As long as I'm going to be at a test, I may as well run two dogs. If I'm tracking with another dog, I'll also track the puppy. Although I teach agility and obedience exercises from her first months, I rarely compete in those venues before the pup is at least two years old. I decide whether to emphasize formal attention heeling or object-focused agility, depending upon the puppy's inherent tendency. Pups with very strong eye contact learn the agility obstacles and field marks first. Those with strong environmental focus learn heads-up heeling first.

Once my dogs reach a high level in one or more venues, I try to balance my training across weeks to make time to introduce new exercises, shore up weak areas, and work known skills to let the dog enjoy the things it knows well. I do my best to train field, particularly running marks, at least once a week. During the hunting season, I make every effort to get them out hunting at least a few times as their reward for all of the other things they do for me.

Of course, my answer to this question makes it sound like my training is far more regular, organized and coordinated than it really is. Heck, in addition to training and breeding, I also have to balance my time, energy, money and husband :-).   I find it challenging to fit in all that I want to do with my dogs but am getting better and better at grabbing a few minutes here and there to work on exercises, particularly for obedience since so many of those can be done anywhere and anytime.

PH: Along the same lines, when you are just starting to train a puppy are your sights and methods already geared towards the high levels of that venue? As an example, if you were training in field would you be using training techniques that are geared towards a MH even though the dog is just beginning his training? Also how do you know that a dog has reached its potential in an individual venue? For instance, how do you decide that Prince is a good agility dog, but may never reach the level required to make him a MACH-quality animal?

GW: My decision to keep a pup is based on my belief that she can excel in multiple venues to a relatively high level so all of my training is focused at those higher levels. Over the years, I've learned that this is a better approach than shooting low and then retraining when I realize the dog can do more.

I find this to be particularly true in the field. Many of the decisions we make early on in field training can make future training and competition easy or tough on our dogs. Over the years, I have come to realize that a strong foundation in the field is worth everything to our dogs. There have been times in the past when I cut corners and pushed dogs to get titles for which they were not fully prepared. Although my dogs rose to the challenge and accomplished things at young ages with minimal training, their poor foundation limited how far these dogs could go and how difficult the more complex training was for them. Now I force myself to do foundation work in all venues, knowing that my dogs will benefit from my patience.

My expectation is that all of my personal dogs will achieve a CDX SH MX MXJ WCX CCA, as well as becoming GRCA Outstanding Producers. Beyond that I let them tell me what they love best and I try to support them in their desires if I'm able. And with an active breeding program, my first priority is caring for and raising the pups that we produce.

The rest of my life leaves less time than I'd prefer for training and competing with my adult dogs but we still have fun together. At the moment, I have one dog that loves the field so we are heading on to Master while my oldest is passionate about agility and obedience so she is going to stop at a Senior Hunter and go to work on her UD and see if we can finish her MACH.

PH: Are there any comments or thoughts that you would like to add but I neglected to ask?

GW: The golden community regularly talks about goldens as hunting dogs when we discuss the Breed Standard ("primarily a hunting dog…") or debate correct conformation and temperament. However, I don't think we talk enough about what it really means for a golden to be a member of the collection of sporting dogs known as retrievers. In my opinion, the work of a retriever is one of the most difficult tasks in the dog world. This work requires numerous contradictory traits in the same dog—we want calm dogs with very strong prey and hunting drive that are immediately obedient to our commands. We want a dog that will walk quietly at heel until we send it for a bird. Then on a single command, it charges straight into water, ice, cover, wind and/or current to go directly to a shot bird as fast as it can get there letting nothing deter it from its task of finding and recovering that bird. Once found, the dog is brave enough to immediately retrieve the game, even if it is only crippled and willing to put up a fight.

At the same time, we also demand that the golden instantly respond to commands and signals to stop or change direction. When we blow the sit whistle, even if the dog is 150 or 200 yards away and only feet from a bird, it must stop and sit. It should then obediently take its handler's directions, although they require her to move away from her initial objective. Despite this deviation, this dog must then remember its original goal, confidently retrieving the multiple birds that were shot. And, it must do all of this while working amongst other hunters and their dogs, respecting their space and efforts.

Finally, it should do this work, over and over, for hours on end regardless of the terrain, weather, cover and game. In some parts of the country, this means working in endless fields, extensive lakes and waterways. In my area, it means finding and retrieving game in heavy, even impenetrable, cover growing on steep rocky hillsides. Waterwork here is usually done in cold, icy and very challenging swamps, where deep water is surrounded by high grass and reed mounds. The animals that can find and retrieve birds for hunters are remarkable in every way. As golden retriever owners and breeders, we must be the first to honor this work, treasuring the dogs that have been created to do these very complex and conflicting tasks. 

We, of all people, should  recognize that the job of a retriever is one of the most difficult that a dog can do, demanding both innate drives and absolute obedience. If we trivialize, simplify or ignore the complex set of traits that make up these hunting dogs, then we can't expect the rest of the dog world or our society to understand our dogs' value. Dogs of many breeds make good family pets but few breeds can do the work of our retrievers. If we don't cherish and preserve the traits that make up these dogs, both physical and mental, I fear we will lose them.

Thanks so much for giving me the opportunity to think about and respond to such interesting questions.

PH: Thanks Gayle for giving us so much to think about. Especially your last answer...